PSA: Discord Activity

[Rares]

Time for another irregularly scheduled PSA.

It's come to staff attention that there have been a number of instances recently on the Discord channel of fighting between user, people feeling generally uncomfortable. I'd just like to take this time to remind everyone the best way to handle a situation.

First off, provoking of anyone will not be tolerated. This includes things deemed as "bait", anything being said negatively directed towards someone and their actions, or their waifu. Now, understand that perhaps you don't mean to bait someone, but be extremely mindful when you say a character makes you mad or uncomfortable, as that could easily hurt someone else. Everyone is entitled to their feelings and has a right to share them, but if you find yourself in a situation where the actions of another's waifu don't make you feel great, the best thing you can do is speak to someone who does love them, as another point of view may really help your own. But basically open baiting will result in a temporary mute, and continued offensives will result in a kick.

Second. If you find yourself where you feel someone is goading you into a fight, the immediate thing you can do is report an action to an available staff member who will handle the situation from there. I understand how difficult it could be if someone says something negative, it can hurt badly, but the best thing you could do is let a staff member deal with the person provoking you, and they will receive a mute. But escalating things just makes things more difficult for everyone.

Third. If you are witnessing something going on, again, report to a mod. Do not engage with what is going on and no goading pics will be tolerated. This means no "oh this gonna be good" comments, no popcorn pictures, by no means do not encourage anything. The best thing you could do is try to speak to the person who is being affected in private, tell them to calm down and remind them of the second step. That is the most effective thing you could do. Anything else will result in deletion of posts.

It is very important to keep this in mind so as to not promote anymore conflict. This is intended to be a safe place for any waifu lover, we are not MLW was and we are not going to tolerate things going in that direction.. In other regards, people care about everyone's well being and that's why these sorts of things will not be encouraged. Same goes for comments like killing the chat, or that people don't care. That's absolutely not true.

With all that in mind, we hope this can continue to be a good place for everyone.

Thank you, let's continue to make this a comfortable place for everyone.

[Kaltes-Herzeleid]

I considered making a thread like this last night, but the other staff already know what I think.

Good job with this.

[Flutterfag]

"when you say a character makes you mad or uncomfortable, as that could easily hurt someone else"
"If you find yourself where you feel someone is goading you into a fight"
"no goading pics will be tolerated"

My problem with this per say is that the definition of "bait" is far too ambiguous, even unrelated to offence itself which this legislature attempts to resolve. Another is that is slanted heavily towards the suspected victim. I request that a more thoughtful definition of the offence to be made, lest it used without proper justice.

Another thing, what is the process in which one is determined to be committing an offence? Is it simply done by one mod, or are the recommendation of others needed? And, is the decision ultimately made the moderation powers or by the people?

I ask this, because I am worried that I may one day (perhaps soon) be consider an offender, which may not be my intent. Intent is rather an important thing that must be acknowledged since this seems to be based upon accusation.

[RML]

"when you say a character makes you mad or uncomfortable, as that could easily hurt someone else"
"If you find yourself where you feel someone is goading you into a fight"
"no goading pics will be tolerated"

My problem with this per say is that the definition of "bait" is far too ambiguous, even unrelated to offence itself which this legislature attempts to resolve. Another is that is slanted heavily towards the suspected victim. I request that a more thoughtful definition of the offence to be made, lest it used without proper justice.

Another thing, what is the process in which one is determined to be committing an offence? Is it simply done by one mod, or are the recommendation of others needed? And, is the decision ultimately made the moderation powers or by the people?

I ask this, because I am worried that I may one day (perhaps soon) be consider an offender, which may not be my intent. Intent is rather an important thing that must be acknowledged since this seems to be based upon accusation.

Don't be a dick, remember? Thats it.

[Flutterfag]

"when you say a character makes you mad or uncomfortable, as that could easily hurt someone else"
"If you find yourself where you feel someone is goading you into a fight"
"no goading pics will be tolerated"

My problem with this per say is that the definition of "bait" is far too ambiguous, even unrelated to offence itself which this legislature attempts to resolve. Another is that is slanted heavily towards the suspected victim. I request that a more thoughtful definition of the offence to be made, lest it used without proper justice.

Another thing, what is the process in which one is determined to be committing an offence? Is it simply done by one mod, or are the recommendation of others needed? And, is the decision ultimately made the moderation powers or by the people?

I ask this, because I am worried that I may one day (perhaps soon) be consider an offender, which may not be my intent. Intent is rather an important thing that must be acknowledged since this seems to be based upon accusation.

Don't be a dick, remember? Thats it.

Well, that's even more ambiguous. You didn't address my concerns at all.

[whobawhats]

So the first thing that will happen is that we will give people a verbal warning if we feel things are getting out of hand. If you're really that worried i can promise you I will always give that to anybody who I feel may be committing an offense while I'm around. If people decide to keep going after that they'll be muted.

For me I consider bait to be any move to actively get a rise out of others. Let me know if that's too ambiguous and I can try to flesh out a better definition.

It is decided by whoever is on staff at the time whether it be one or many. Just for example; when austin/aero was kicked the other day all 4 staff members who were online at the time weighed in on the decision and it was not something that was done lightly. We very heavily debated it.

I hope this helps

[Flutterfag]

One more question. Does this rule apply to some heavier debates, such as the one I had about waifu polygamy? It shouldn't, but I see that it is just as scrutinised.

[whobawhats]

One more question. Does this rule apply to some heavier debates, such as the one I had about waifu polygamy? It shouldn't, but I see that it is just as scrutinised.

I'm more than okay with heavier topics as long as it is not hurting anyone. If I see someone who may appear to be in distress over it then I will ask the conversation to be discontinued. An example of that kind of case would be the discussion you brought up.

[Rares]

To answer you, I think whobawhats laid it out good. The first few verbal warnings should be considered the time to end it, as they're not meant to be directed towards anyone, but it's a way to just end the whole situation before it escalates. When a staff member says "drop it", the best thing to do is let it go so it doesn't go anywhere crazy. If that's ignored, that's when people will get muted, and mutes will only be for an hour, just until things calm down.

As for bait, I think the best way to describe it is something like "I don't like your waifu" in a sense that it's just thrown out there and a bit blunt. Like, there's a difference between messaging someone saying "Hey, what happened didn't make me feel great, how do you feel about it?" and talking it out in a much more calm setting is the best way to resolve those feelings. Throwing out something like "Your waifu makes me mad" is something that sort of asks for trouble.

It may be a bit loosely defined, but the reason for that is so there's no stricter laws so there is no power gap. There should be no looming authority, as at that just kind of makes more issues. That's why there are several warnings, and the mute. As it stands, the way it should happen is when a staff member asks to end it, or drop it, if it continues temporary mutes will be given just for a chance to it things simmers down. Staff members will not make calls to kick or ban someone on their own, and it's a thing that will be discussed with the others until they are sure. And even being muted, people will not be kicked unless they receive several more warnings and continue to break those. So simply put, no one is being kicked unless they receive ample notice about it and continue to cause issue. And even then, kicks are not permanent, as this is a forgiving community.

As for debates, that's just something where again, we can understand basic discussion, but if a mod asks to tone it back, the best answer is some people will just do what makes them happiest and to let it be at that. It shouldn't escalate into a debate. Discussions shouldn't be about trying to "convert" someone to your way of thinking, rather to just bring up your own while understanding others, to bring up a different perspective.

I hope that clears it up.

[7bloom]

Since we're trying to make things well and comfortable and feeling safe, I have some things to say too.

I do see people who aren't being hostile at all have their thoughts immediately drowned out by a transparent dump of filler text and random images. I notice it's especially mods who do this, to distract from the feelings of others that are seen as uncomfortable. I've shared my thoughts on this already but it was denied as being true, and still happens. It's rather hurtful to the one being purposely drown out, and understandable for them to feel unwanted when that happens. The chat of course shouldn't have to freeze because someone wanted to share some serious thoughts, but there's a difference between naturally starting a new topic while being considerate of the person's serious feelings, and just dumping filler stuff to get rid of it quickly while they don't understand why you'd do that to them if you care about what they have to say and what they're going through.

If something hurtful is said to someone, and the person who's hurt or another non-mod doesn't come in to say how wrong that is, I don't think I've ever seen a mod coming in to say that's not nice or that they should watch what they say or post. I don't think they're privately instructing the people who do those things on what went wrong and how to help people feel nicer, because we all still see the same things happening. If, like Flutterfag says, the person saying something inconsiderate doesn't even know that they're hurting someone, I don't see silently just dealing with it, under threat of being lectured for being negative and souring the atmosphere, as being good. Being so concerned with that atmosphere that someone can't share their own feelings is against the goal here. I understand the general thought, of course; we don't want people getting worked up and saying abusive things to each-other, but if someone said something terrible to me and I was told to "drop it" when I tried to defend myself, my lover, or a friend, I would consider that to be a sign that things really are hopeless, from that perspective. If the person hurt instead goes to a mod about it, rather than explaining their feelings to everyone, and the mod does take it seriously and not suggest "you should talk to them about your feelings", the person who initially said the thoughtless thing will be made to feel bad knowing that people have been talking about them behind their back when they potentially meant no ill will.

Something else I've spoken up about is people using the bot recklessly in #nsfw, bringing up shipping art and similar, and not caring enough to change what they're typing. I know I can't feel safe if things like that could pop up at any time, and I know I'm not the only one. If we're aiming to have a place where we can feel safe in our love, being asked to just ignore it because it's just how the bot is, when the most painful things for us are posted, isn't fitting. I think there should be more to encourage people to not be reckless with it, since it is very possible to avoid shipping, and not let them continue thinking nothing was done wrong after they feel like they want something not fitting for a waifu group, but thinks it's just as well to search it on the WC discord for everyone to see rather than privately searching on the site and using one of the two ways to randomize the search based on the tags provided. There is no justification to seeing specific shipping or incest tags searched in this group.

I care about the people here too, and seem to have enough reason to stay around despite often feeling terribly tense, sad and afraid nearly every day regarding things here, so I would like this opportunity to talk about these things to be worth something this time.